I totally recognise the personal comments and lack of filter from my Finnish in laws, (personal favourite - 'how do you stay so fat if you don't each cheese?'). I wonder if weeks and weeks of darkness just strip away any capacity to consider the other's feelings.
I can't speak with any authority but my small exposure to Scandi culture is that it is pretty straight speaking. I think transcending culture however, there is a type of woman who would probably rather die than go up a dress size. That's to do with their own environment and introjects, it's water off a ducks back now, but it caused younger me quite a bit of hurt.
Anita I was howling with laughter reading this (if you can’t cry, you’ve got to laugh!!) I’m also Indian British, and I too have distant relatives in India and I’m also single.
However I’m much more older than you (ahem menopausal age lol) and I can say the benefits of being older in the Asian community is no one continues to ask me about getting married (!) and to keep my peace of mind I never go on visits to India with my parents. They inevitably want to visit six million different relatives homes, which is where the comments start. Instead I visit India with friends and family my age, and we all agree on minimal “India family visits” to preserve our sanity - collectively we all have horror stories so understand.
But yes, we still get comments from random strangers we encounter in India - it’s at this point I am thankful that my grandparents left India, and all the sacrifices they made.
It's such a tough one as there's so many parts of Indian culture I love, but the old fashioned views on appearance and women etc is tricky to manage for sure!
HARD relate! Sorry you had to deal with that layer of exhaustion on your trip. Really sucks the joy out of seeing family. Also - why so South Asian mums do such a good job of throwing us under the bus?! I can laugh about it mostly with my mum, but also it sucks.
I married at 38, and all my younger cousins already had kids and husbands, so for a long time I was the one talked about, lamented over as the 'family burden' and commented on as being too old and past it. So I feel you. Meanwhile, I was having a great time.
It was WEIRD how it all stopped after I did get married. How suddenly I was somehow validated as a grown up woman finally, in the eyes of the community. It's so messed up. I hated seeing that 'before and after' and it made me so angry for how little regard I got as a adult, healthy and happy, successful woman. How little any of it mattered, how it wasn't deemed to be celebratory, all that mattered was been slim, attractive and married. Its MAD.
I'm quite aggressive with my nieces now, about standing in their power and affirming their sense of womanhood WITHOUT the need to be validated by all the things we had to / have to be validated by. I take comfort in the fact that we will be the last lot to deal with this rubbish!
Yeah you're so right! I think as well where I'm from in India is quite traditional and it's probably less of a big deal in bigger cities but it is a layer of negativity that lurks in the back of your mind a bit! And love that you're doing that with your nieces too! You can really see the power in the younger, gen z and below generations of SAs! xx
Anita, I feel your pain, laughs and bewilderment at those horrid underhand comments! Family literally have no filter especially in India where anyone is fair game, your post was highly relatable!
I like to think in the UK we are changing to appreciating each other for who we are rather than our marital status and skin colour, at least that's what I'm hoping to do!
I think we are....but there's still a lot of judgement. I think I've realised a lot of it is internal too, but it's hard to work though that and recognise it!
Working on our own judgements is an everyday task because old beliefs can creep in. One book that helped me with this is 'Courage to be Disliked' by Ichiro Kishimi, Fumitake Koga.
Anita, I’m laughing and commiserating! North Indian here, but same values. My dad’s sister in law once casually told my mom, in front of me and my sister, what a shame it was that my mom only had girls. And then moved on to lunch. I can’t figure it out either, but it makes for good stories. Your hair looks great in that pic btw!
I should add, I can laugh because we were raised by a mother who, while she couldn’t always do it herself, taught her girls not to give a 💩 what other people say. Especially the relatives.
Oh I love that! I have a Pakistani friend who was born here and her dad taught her and her four sisters to fight anyone who said anything to them which is wild/brilliant at the same time! haha
Omg that sounds so stressful. 😩 Not that my option matters — and I have read and loved your book so maybe this is an unwelcome opinion — but you really are beautiful inside out. 🫶🏻 Maybe it doesn’t apply to relatives but I often find that when people say snarky things it reflects their inner life more than anything to do with you personally. 🥰 But as an elder millennial woman growing up in a culture of thinness I have always felt the pressure/judgement because I’m a UK 14/16 and not a 4/6/8/whatever women are “supposed” to be.
We really did! I was talking to my thin friend the other day and she's always been so gorgeous to me and even she has body hangups (especially after having children), which was wild to me! 😳🙈
wow #nothingisauniqueexperience in the best and worst way??? reading this was so validating and reminded me oh yeah all the hang-ups/woes/and ingrained stories make complete sense. i think i've gotten so nervous about going back to india because i know that this is what i'll expect and there's so much grief in that too - thank you for sharing, empathy empathy empathy your way
Darlings, NOBODY"S relatives are happy with their descendants, my mother literally told me that I could catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, all the while lamenting my apple shaped bod. We are all in this together, and frankly, dears, you look MAHVELOUS.
And I'm old enough to be your great grandmother, so please count my comments as coming from MUCH older relative who can see the worth in independent women.
Your mom piping in to throw you under the bus? Man, I felt that. My (East Asian) parents are the same and the only thing that worked was having enough arguments so that family knew it wasn't worth getting into it. It means I have permanent resting bitch face with them, which I don't like but...whatever we gotta do, right?
Oh yes there's that too! I got that yesterday from a relative and it was SO awkward when I didn't at least mutely agree so we could move on 😂 I just pretended I didn't hear!
EXHAUSTING. i used to wonder what it might have been like if my parents had immigrated to the UK or canada instead of the states—but some things would have been exactly the same. namely the uniquely south asian ability to punish each other and everyone around. the flip side of how welcoming and generous the community can be…
So lovely to discover your Substack! I’m a first gen immigrant but my husband and I never really fit into our culture growing up, so we tend to end up in majority white spaces. It’s nice to find a progressive SA space here. Trust me, the comments never end: after marriage there’s pressure to have kids, buy a house…life is just a series of peaks to plant flags on.
I felt so validated by this. I’m turning down more and more trips to India with my parents for the exact reasons you say in this article. Friends who are not south Asian have often said talk back or ignore the comments but it’s so difficult as family is so intertwined. Any time I say no to the married question the level of disappointment can be felt in the room. I once told an auntie I loved her Indian version of a house coat and would I love one for me. She paused, looked me up and down and said no where would stock my size. A year later I was at a market in Paris and I saw a version of it on the stall and bought it for €10 which fit me and I needed to use the drawstring to make it smaller.
However, in general most of my family have no filter or regard as to what it is I’m actually going through and don’t bother to ask.
Thank you so much for articulating what I’ve experienced time and time again from extended and close family, randoms and complete strangers, it had such a negative impact on me that I decided to spend as little time as possible around those people and I’ve not been back to India or Pakistan since, it’s been the only way for me. BTW love your posts, you’re gorgeous as you are and rock the colour yellow, something I’ve never been able to do! X
I have hashimoto's that went undiagnosed for the better part of a decade. I felt so much better once I finally got on the right meds. I hope you start feeling better soon, too! You're gorgeous and brilliant. 😘
Thanks for vocalising this. To be honest it doesn't matter if other cultures are better - what happens in our culture as you have described must be addressed.
Your blasted relatives should leave you the hell alone other than to comment on your outstanding success as a treasured Substack Beauty content creator. and your basic human value as a MENSCH of the first caliber. Sorry about the Hashimoto's, love, watch out for additional autoimmune diseases showing up, autoimmune is never satisfied without additional fuckery. I've got MS and Bipolar and fibromyalgia, all pretty much in remission, but then, I'm 76 years old and my immune system is worn out.
I totally recognise the personal comments and lack of filter from my Finnish in laws, (personal favourite - 'how do you stay so fat if you don't each cheese?'). I wonder if weeks and weeks of darkness just strip away any capacity to consider the other's feelings.
Oh wow! I'm fascinated to hear about this outside of Asian culture. How do you deal with it? Is Finnish culture quite direct generally?
I can't speak with any authority but my small exposure to Scandi culture is that it is pretty straight speaking. I think transcending culture however, there is a type of woman who would probably rather die than go up a dress size. That's to do with their own environment and introjects, it's water off a ducks back now, but it caused younger me quite a bit of hurt.
Anita I was howling with laughter reading this (if you can’t cry, you’ve got to laugh!!) I’m also Indian British, and I too have distant relatives in India and I’m also single.
However I’m much more older than you (ahem menopausal age lol) and I can say the benefits of being older in the Asian community is no one continues to ask me about getting married (!) and to keep my peace of mind I never go on visits to India with my parents. They inevitably want to visit six million different relatives homes, which is where the comments start. Instead I visit India with friends and family my age, and we all agree on minimal “India family visits” to preserve our sanity - collectively we all have horror stories so understand.
But yes, we still get comments from random strangers we encounter in India - it’s at this point I am thankful that my grandparents left India, and all the sacrifices they made.
It's such a tough one as there's so many parts of Indian culture I love, but the old fashioned views on appearance and women etc is tricky to manage for sure!
HARD relate! Sorry you had to deal with that layer of exhaustion on your trip. Really sucks the joy out of seeing family. Also - why so South Asian mums do such a good job of throwing us under the bus?! I can laugh about it mostly with my mum, but also it sucks.
I married at 38, and all my younger cousins already had kids and husbands, so for a long time I was the one talked about, lamented over as the 'family burden' and commented on as being too old and past it. So I feel you. Meanwhile, I was having a great time.
It was WEIRD how it all stopped after I did get married. How suddenly I was somehow validated as a grown up woman finally, in the eyes of the community. It's so messed up. I hated seeing that 'before and after' and it made me so angry for how little regard I got as a adult, healthy and happy, successful woman. How little any of it mattered, how it wasn't deemed to be celebratory, all that mattered was been slim, attractive and married. Its MAD.
I'm quite aggressive with my nieces now, about standing in their power and affirming their sense of womanhood WITHOUT the need to be validated by all the things we had to / have to be validated by. I take comfort in the fact that we will be the last lot to deal with this rubbish!
Yeah you're so right! I think as well where I'm from in India is quite traditional and it's probably less of a big deal in bigger cities but it is a layer of negativity that lurks in the back of your mind a bit! And love that you're doing that with your nieces too! You can really see the power in the younger, gen z and below generations of SAs! xx
Anita, I feel your pain, laughs and bewilderment at those horrid underhand comments! Family literally have no filter especially in India where anyone is fair game, your post was highly relatable!
I like to think in the UK we are changing to appreciating each other for who we are rather than our marital status and skin colour, at least that's what I'm hoping to do!
I think we are....but there's still a lot of judgement. I think I've realised a lot of it is internal too, but it's hard to work though that and recognise it!
Working on our own judgements is an everyday task because old beliefs can creep in. One book that helped me with this is 'Courage to be Disliked' by Ichiro Kishimi, Fumitake Koga.
Anita, I’m laughing and commiserating! North Indian here, but same values. My dad’s sister in law once casually told my mom, in front of me and my sister, what a shame it was that my mom only had girls. And then moved on to lunch. I can’t figure it out either, but it makes for good stories. Your hair looks great in that pic btw!
I should add, I can laugh because we were raised by a mother who, while she couldn’t always do it herself, taught her girls not to give a 💩 what other people say. Especially the relatives.
Oh I love that! I have a Pakistani friend who was born here and her dad taught her and her four sisters to fight anyone who said anything to them which is wild/brilliant at the same time! haha
Omg that sounds so stressful. 😩 Not that my option matters — and I have read and loved your book so maybe this is an unwelcome opinion — but you really are beautiful inside out. 🫶🏻 Maybe it doesn’t apply to relatives but I often find that when people say snarky things it reflects their inner life more than anything to do with you personally. 🥰 But as an elder millennial woman growing up in a culture of thinness I have always felt the pressure/judgement because I’m a UK 14/16 and not a 4/6/8/whatever women are “supposed” to be.
Ah thanks love! Millennial women got so screwed over by size zero didn't we. I'm so envious of the younger generations who avoided some of that!!!
We really did! I was talking to my thin friend the other day and she's always been so gorgeous to me and even she has body hangups (especially after having children), which was wild to me! 😳🙈
wow #nothingisauniqueexperience in the best and worst way??? reading this was so validating and reminded me oh yeah all the hang-ups/woes/and ingrained stories make complete sense. i think i've gotten so nervous about going back to india because i know that this is what i'll expect and there's so much grief in that too - thank you for sharing, empathy empathy empathy your way
It's hard as there's so much great stuff too in the culture, but the bluntness is something else!!!
Darlings, NOBODY"S relatives are happy with their descendants, my mother literally told me that I could catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, all the while lamenting my apple shaped bod. We are all in this together, and frankly, dears, you look MAHVELOUS.
And I'm old enough to be your great grandmother, so please count my comments as coming from MUCH older relative who can see the worth in independent women.
Your mom piping in to throw you under the bus? Man, I felt that. My (East Asian) parents are the same and the only thing that worked was having enough arguments so that family knew it wasn't worth getting into it. It means I have permanent resting bitch face with them, which I don't like but...whatever we gotta do, right?
haha, I think my mum does it to stop or move the conversation on but she does a terrible job of it!
Oh yes there's that too! I got that yesterday from a relative and it was SO awkward when I didn't at least mutely agree so we could move on 😂 I just pretended I didn't hear!
EXHAUSTING. i used to wonder what it might have been like if my parents had immigrated to the UK or canada instead of the states—but some things would have been exactly the same. namely the uniquely south asian ability to punish each other and everyone around. the flip side of how welcoming and generous the community can be…
love your writing as always ❤️
You're right - I sometimes wonder if it's because we have such a focus on achievement and perfection in our cultures that we turn that outwards too!
So lovely to discover your Substack! I’m a first gen immigrant but my husband and I never really fit into our culture growing up, so we tend to end up in majority white spaces. It’s nice to find a progressive SA space here. Trust me, the comments never end: after marriage there’s pressure to have kids, buy a house…life is just a series of peaks to plant flags on.
I felt so validated by this. I’m turning down more and more trips to India with my parents for the exact reasons you say in this article. Friends who are not south Asian have often said talk back or ignore the comments but it’s so difficult as family is so intertwined. Any time I say no to the married question the level of disappointment can be felt in the room. I once told an auntie I loved her Indian version of a house coat and would I love one for me. She paused, looked me up and down and said no where would stock my size. A year later I was at a market in Paris and I saw a version of it on the stall and bought it for €10 which fit me and I needed to use the drawstring to make it smaller.
However, in general most of my family have no filter or regard as to what it is I’m actually going through and don’t bother to ask.
Thank you so much for articulating what I’ve experienced time and time again from extended and close family, randoms and complete strangers, it had such a negative impact on me that I decided to spend as little time as possible around those people and I’ve not been back to India or Pakistan since, it’s been the only way for me. BTW love your posts, you’re gorgeous as you are and rock the colour yellow, something I’ve never been able to do! X
I have hashimoto's that went undiagnosed for the better part of a decade. I felt so much better once I finally got on the right meds. I hope you start feeling better soon, too! You're gorgeous and brilliant. 😘
Thanks for vocalising this. To be honest it doesn't matter if other cultures are better - what happens in our culture as you have described must be addressed.
Your blasted relatives should leave you the hell alone other than to comment on your outstanding success as a treasured Substack Beauty content creator. and your basic human value as a MENSCH of the first caliber. Sorry about the Hashimoto's, love, watch out for additional autoimmune diseases showing up, autoimmune is never satisfied without additional fuckery. I've got MS and Bipolar and fibromyalgia, all pretty much in remission, but then, I'm 76 years old and my immune system is worn out.
This is how it is in the african culture, it’s so exhausting!